Author Topic: 7.55 test package  (Read 2320 times)

Spaceman333

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2017, 09:43:26 PM »
@Spaceman: the "Jumbled" theme setting means each map's theme is chosen purely randomly (like a dice throw), where "bit mixed" means groups of maps (2-4) have the same theme before choosing a new (random) one.  The "xxx-ish" settings means you get mostly "xxx" but with an occasionally different one thrown in.

Symmetry is where rooms are mirrored, e.g. has the same architecture on the left side as the right side.

Thank you, that gives me better insight on when I'm generating maps. I'd appreciate it if there was a simple txt file that explains the settings or an info function of some sort that could bring up descriptions in the generator itself.

Like Frozsoul, I too would like to thank you for making Oblige, I've had tons of fun playing through roughly over 140+ of 32 map campaigns with it, combined with various gameplay mods and addons. Its has allowed me to enjoy doom exactly the way I wanted, providing an endless source of surprising new maps to mow down huge hordes of demons on.

I'm also a bit puzzled. Lately I've been trying out the older version of Oblige, namely 3.57, 5.10 and 6.20 (+Glaice's edit). They're all amazing and fully functional and full of cool features, each generating remarkable maps of different styles. I was really impressed by them when I tried them out. I'm surprised that they're buried in an akward subfolder on source forge, instead of being featured as prominently as the current stable version (7.50). I feel a bit sad that many people might miss out on the amazing quality these older releases can offer. Why not package the best version of each wave into a single pack and put them up for download in the same featured way as the 7.50 version?

Also one more point of feedback I had is to request an option in oblige to toggle whether monsters spawn with the "deaf" flag on or off. I'd like to generate maps where monsters just pour in at me instead of them patiently waiting for me to find them.

Glaice

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2017, 11:40:15 AM »
I've started porting some of my edits over from my heavily edited 7.50 version, minus the custom textures.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 07:15:10 PM by Glaice »

andrewj

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2017, 09:57:15 PM »
One question I had is whether 3D floors will make a return for the next Oblige release?  This is a feature I really liked in v6, it would be great if it could return in the next version.
Unfortunately no, 3D floors will require a lot of work to become usable again, too much for the next release, but are something I will work on after that.

Quote from: Spaceman333
I'm also a bit puzzled. Lately I've been trying out the older version of Oblige, namely 3.57, 5.10 and 6.20 (+Glaice's edit). They're all amazing and fully functional and full of cool features, each generating remarkable maps of different styles.
I disagree a little about them being "amazing".  Version 5.10 did some nice things, but maps were very repetitive and large rooms in it were often badly laid out (large outdoor room could be ridiculously silly).  Version 6.20 is basically 3.57 on steroids (without the funky lighting system).

Version 7 is meant to be the one which can produce the best (and most varied) maps, having as many as the good features from past versions as is possible.  Plus I don't really have enough energy to support *one* version well (dealing with feature requests, bug reports, etc), so I definitely cannot support a bunch of different versions.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 10:09:10 PM by andrewj »

Herculine

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2017, 05:07:29 AM »
Quote
Version 7 is meant to be the one which can produce the best (and most varied) maps, having as many as the good features from past versions as is possible.

I think this is why I have been the most impressed with 7.50 above earlier versions. I've generated and played through several full-game .WADs and have yet to feel like I was playing redundant maps. Sure, some aspects will be similar, as is to be expected with such a thing, but the overall map layouts are varied enough to keep it interesting and fun. I'd also like to see more complex features like 3D bridges, but I understand that implementing such things could adversely affect the current formula that has impressed me so.

The main thing I'm not certain about with 7.55 is the triple-layered keyed doors. It is a nice change of pace for a map or two, but thus far I haven't found a setting that will stop it from being in almost every map except to set it for no keyed doors at all. Maybe I'm just getting unlucky rolls of the dice though, so I'm not really complaining. I will continue to test and chime in again later. Ultimately I'd like to see the triple-door appear only occasionally with the remainder of the maps having the normal keyed door arrangements. But again I know that might be easier said than done. I've seen mention of quest scripting in relation to this, so I don't know if this is a case of it has to be one or the other but can never be both in the same version.
(edit: Selecting "mix it up" for the "keyed doors" option seems to be working more to my liking. I'll report more after testing a few more maps.)

Aside from that, 7.55 has been interesting to test and I especially like the return of the narrow hallways and the fact that the maps seem to be covering more ground area now. Keep up the great work and thank you.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 07:29:12 AM by Herculine »

flyingdeath

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2017, 07:41:54 AM »
@Herculine: You must be getting bad dice rolls, I have played through 19 maps, and only got 1 map with triple doors, and was considering asking for them to be made a bit more common. Maybe things like this should have stricter controls on the max/min no.of times used.

Herculine

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2017, 08:19:45 AM »
@flyingdeath:

Selecting "mix it up" for the "keyed doors" option seems to be working better. I likely spoke sooner than I should have, before doing more thorough testing. Previously I had it set to "heaps", which is what I always use with 7.50 to insure that I get all 3 doors in an "extreme" size setting, but with 7.55 that seems to trigger the 3-layered door combo more often (which logically it should, now that I see it in print).

On a side note, I just played a 7.55-generated map where it was necessary to cross damaging liquid in more than one instance to proceed, as well as to get at least one of the secrets. COOL.

crowbars82

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2017, 11:27:23 AM »
I am straight on this, my evening is sorted!

Glaice

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2017, 12:03:05 PM »
For Boom supporting ports, there are linedef actions that make use of all three keys and would save space in maps for such that can utilize it (Yea, I know you've replied to a past post bring this it :P). Hell, there's even a door action that makes you need all six keys, which would be something useful on huge maps.

Herculine

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2017, 12:27:57 PM »
For Boom supporting ports, there are linedef actions that make use of all three keys and would save space in maps for such that can utilize it (Yea, I know you've replied to a past post bring this it :P). Hell, there's even a door action that makes you need all six keys, which would be something useful on huge maps.

I was thinking about that but was afraid to mention it. It would be good especially for maps generated on the "extreme" size setting, possibly eliminating some switch-hunting.

Glaice

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2017, 11:32:44 PM »
Hey Andrew, feel free to use any of the modifications packaged in this archive here :)

It's mostly additional variants for a bunch of prefabs and variants for specific themes.

andrewj

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2017, 04:44:12 AM »
The triple key doors have a 30% chance of being used on a map, or 60% when the Mode setting is "Co-operative" (since I reckon non-linearity is good for co-op).  When not used on a map, the keys will be used normally.

The size of the map affects it too, maps for the "small" Size setting will produce them less often simply because they lack enough leaf rooms.

Hey Andrew, feel free to use any of the modifications packaged in this archive here :)
Thanks, I will take a look soon.

Herculine

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2017, 06:51:32 AM »
@andrewj

Ah, that explains it! I always generate "extreme" size maps simply because I love big time-consuming epic maps, and I always use the co-operative setting just in case I actually get some friends some day. I'll try the single-player setting and that should fix it. Thanks for the info!

(Of course, there's always the option of generating single-player maps and then if necessary adding in the co-op player starts later with an editor.)

edit: When I say "fix it" I don't mean to imply that I feel that anything is broken because I think you do a great job with this. I simply mean that the results should better fit my own personal preferences. The variety of options provided I think are adequate to potentially give every player maps that fit their own play style (as long as we set those options properly).
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 07:51:38 AM by Herculine »

Glaice

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2017, 09:37:18 PM »
Whoops, didn't finish pillar2.lua edits..

I still need to port the key and item alcove edits later as well.

flyingdeath

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2017, 03:12:30 AM »
I have reached hell maps on my wad (I used orig theme). The hell theme seems much stronger than before, feeling more hellish, and less like the same maps with a different skin. This is just an initial impression, and I'm not sure to what extent hell maps are actually that different from the other themes.

Edit: I think it might be down to the fact that caves (with I think more thematic texturing) are used a lot more in hell.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 06:34:06 AM by flyingdeath »

Glaice

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2017, 09:33:19 AM »
Yea, you can make a style_list in themes.lua and fine-tune all the elements (found in scripts/defs.lua) to your liking. For example, I use this for the hell theme:

Code: [Select]
    style_list =
   {
      doors = { none=10, few=50, some=30, heaps=3 }
      steepness = { few=20, some=70, heaps=40 }
      big_rooms = { few=30, some=50, heaps=20 }
      ambushes = { few=5, some=25, heaps=60 }
      teleporters = { none=15, few=20, some=60, heaps=10 }
      keys = { none=10, few=20, some=70, heaps=25 }
      liquids = { none=20, few=45, some=25, heaps=20 }
      traps = { few=10, some=30, heaps=75 }
      switches = { none=10, few=50, some=35, heaps=5 }
      cages    = { none=5, few=15, some=65, heaps=10 }
      secrets = { few=65, some=30, heaps=10 }
      caves = { none=70, few=15, some=2 }
    }

The same applies with monster_prefs, which I altered as well..

Code: [Select]
    monster_prefs =
    {
      zombie  = 0.4
      shooter = 0.7
      vile    = 1.3
      imp     = 1.5
      demon   = 1.2
      spectre = 1.2
      skull   = 2.0
      gunner  = 0.85
    }

I have TECH theme have more frequent use of the easier enemies (zombies, imps, demon/spectre, etc) while the mid and high tier enemies show up less often, on top of altering monsters.lua so there's some replacement chance between zombies and demons (IE chaingunner occasionally showing up in group of sergeants, imp showing in group of demons, etc)

Code: [Select]
  shooter =
  {
    id = 9
    r = 20
    h = 56
    level = 1
    prob = 90
    health = 30
    damage = 3.0
    attack = "hitscan"
    replaces = "zombie"
    replace_prob = 15
    density = 1.0
    give = { {weapon="shotty"}, {ammo="shell",count=4} }
    species = "zombie"
    room_size = "any"
    disloyal = true
    trap_factor = 2.0
    infight_damage = 6.1
  }

Stuff like that, alongside making most enemies with the "any" room_size for maximum randomness.