Author Topic: 7.55 test package  (Read 2029 times)

andrewj

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7.55 test package
« on: May 30, 2017, 01:49:40 AM »
For anyone interested in trying out the current OBLIGE code, here is a unofficial package for testing.

As a map generator, OBLIGE still makes pretty poor maps, and this version is no better at it than 7.50, possible a bit worse due to most grammar rules that feature diagonals are currently disabled.

What has improved is some ancilliary things, e.g. the sky generator can make decent looking mountains and nebulas, weapons are doled out in a better way, there are some nicer windows, etc....

Some of the new features are not finished yet, especially the hallways, which are quite limited at the moment.  See the changelog in the next post.

Hope you have some fun with this 8)

andrewj

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2017, 01:51:23 AM »
Code: [Select]
CHANGES IN 7.55
===============

+  UI: big revamp, two scrolling columns of modules
-  UI: main window can be vertically resized
-  UI: option to use mousewheel to change settings
-  UI: option to disable the overwrite-file warning
-  UI: the "Use" button in config manager now sets the seed too
-  UI: "@@" on the command line will forget current module

+  the "Weapons" button now controls how early or late new
   weapons are introduced into the wad

+  hallways (IN PROGRESS...)

+  better scenic areas outside the map (IN PROGRESS...)

+  sky generator: much better looking mountains

+  more variety of window prefabs

+  ensure a secret exit can always be placed
-  fixed bug swapping normal-exit and secret-exit switches
-  support secret weapons (available earlier than usual)

-  fixed large teleport-in monsters getting stuck

-  support for the Quake3 map format in the CSG code

-  new "Ramp Up" and "Bosses" buttons for monster panel
-  new themes: "Bit Mixed", "Original-ish", "Episode-ish"
-  new health/ammo settings: "Bit Less" and "Bit More"

-  got triple-key doors working again
-  got remote-activated doors working again
-  got lowering-bar fences working again

-  improved title generator, removed pre-made backgrounds
-  support TGA format title pics when engine is GZDOOM

-  support for rooms with a liquid river and a bridge
-  raise outdoor fences when near an item pedestal (etc)
-  smooth corners where two fences meet

-  proper action system for remotely activated doors (etc)
-  removed the non-standard player things (4001..4004)

-  introduced variation in how much symmetry to use
-  unused leaf rooms become "storage" for some minor items
-  lower tendency of creating long/thin rooms

-  various polishing of the shape rules
-  DOOM CSG: reworked how railing textures are handled
-  abbreviated config in OBLIGDAT lump and config manager

juizzysquirt

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2017, 03:09:29 PM »
Nice, I'll have some fun with this.  :P

As a map generator, OBLIGE still makes pretty poor maps, and this version is no better at it than 7.50, possible a bit worse due to most grammar rules that feature diagonals are currently disabled.

After playing couple of levels, I don't necessarily feel it's a bad thing. I mean, there still are diagonality in caverns and other outdoor surfaces if I understood correctly?

Glaice

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2017, 04:53:50 PM »
http://imgur.com/a/3EfhA Have some screenshots.

What I like:
  • The bigger traps, specifically when they're spread out further back.
  • The little weapon/item depots.
  • Skies look nicer as the mountains look even better than before.
  • Current architecture reminds me of v2, a little bit of v6 and mostly v7.
  • Windows you can see into that shows a secret item.
  • Rooms generally looking more wide open and thus better movement from area to area.
  • Hallways and new vents.
  • The borders with trees and stubs scattered around.
  • Interior rooms look nicer.

What I don't like:
  • Not enough usage of organic flats used in Tech and Urban outdoor rooms. The "naturals" are for alcoves from what I've seen.*
  • Need the occasional flicker/strobe/pulse effects on ceiling lights, random unlocked doors and certain prefabs.*
  • METAL borders should be used mainly for Urban and Hell. Tech could use the SHAWN2 texture to match environment. Same applies to wall prefab edges for Tech.
*nitpick

Other than that, it plays pretty nicely :) Need to further play into the WAD I generated later.

Edit: Haven't come across anything major so far, mostly just aesthetic issues such as misaligned textures.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 10:56:36 AM by Glaice »

ScooT9

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2017, 02:17:04 PM »
Y E S H!!!!

new oblige test package yay
Did you know that i also make games?
I'm making one in the doom engine, it's called "m invasion", go check it out on moddb!

ScooT9

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2017, 10:44:10 AM »
Alright, so i tried the maps generated by this test package and i'm getting this v6 vibe from some areas, especially the big outdoor areas.
i don't know why
Did you know that i also make games?
I'm making one in the doom engine, it's called "m invasion", go check it out on moddb!

flyingdeath

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2017, 07:23:33 AM »
Dunno if I just got a lucky seed, but I am getting some excellent maps. Early pacing feels much better than before, pacing in general feels good. Outdoor areas feel more outdoory, map structure seems more interesting and challenging. Lots of the sneaky stuff that I approve of. Traps and backfilling are on point, with some real seat of the pants action.

That's all for now.

Glaice

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2017, 11:10:11 AM »
https://imgur.com/a/cVUBl

More screenshots, plus comments/suggestions for Ajapted on some of them.

Ota

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2017, 07:04:05 PM »
I haven't played in awhile, and seeing what others were saying, I thought I'd give it a crack.

I'm halfway through a DOOM II megawad using the new test package.  It's quite nice.  The architecture isn't all that bad at all.  The caves aren't overdone, and you get nice open outdoor areas which would be good for large battles.  My ammo is well balanced, even the fights are well balanced.  Love the exploratory secrets that blend in with the natural flow of the map.  However, the secrets do get way too plentiful.  MAP15 has 23 secrets, for instance.

Some notes, however: the secret that you see a window above and the door leading to it with steps was used a bit frequently.  While there isn't much decoration, it still holds really well for being mainly devoid of other objects or otherwise.

Probably one of the best maps I've ever played using Oblige (so far, that is) was on this one, MAP14, coincidentally called Western Castle, because it pretty much was a castle-like map, quite huge, and included a huge outdoor grass area.  Unfortunately, there weren't that many monsters in that area, but the towering walls made it pretty to look at.  It was tough enough that I had to switch between shotgun, rocket launcher, and plasma gun, and it gave me what I needed when I wanted it.  Also bit of a hunt going between teleporters to certain areas was fun, and having enemies spawn unexpectedly keeps you on your toes as well!

The only other thing I can think of that would be of a nitpick would be the shallowness of the exits, when it has an exit door.  Although, I do like the false exit with a surprise monster behind the real exit button ;o  Oh, I miss the waterfalls as well from the V2/3 (?) era.  Those were brilliant.

All in all, so far I think it's definitely the most complex and most intriguing set of maps I've played.  Love it.

Spaceman333

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2017, 06:31:35 AM »
Played about 15 maps so far on small, tough difficulty with nuts enemies and barrels.
Roughly 300-400 monsters per map, recommended to play with some powerful/OP gameplay mod.

http://www.filedropper.com/32755testsmallnutsbarrels

Things I like:
*Hallways! Yes! I love these things.
*Larger, Open-er areas! Totally missed that in 7.50. Bigger and badder gladiator arenas is something I wanted to see oblige do more.
*New sections, modules and scenic zones.

What I don't like:
*Can't disable switches/buttons that open walls/doors/bars.
*Small map size is quite big, would appreciate if there was a tiny size, which is half the size of small.
*No official option to place tons of barrels. I hacked my version by replacing spectre's ID with the explosive barrel, it works surprisingly well.
*Options are vaguely named and lack descriptions. wtf is the difference between "a bit mixed" or "jumbled up". wtf is "symmetry"?

andrewj

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2017, 07:23:32 AM »
Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I plan to finish some unfinished stuff, and do some other improvements (e.g. crates in Hell, lack of barrels), and then make a proper release, hopefully by the end of June.

After that, I plan to make a fork of OBLIGE and take things in a different direction.  I'm not 100% sure exactly what yet.  Creating maps for a truely 3D engine (like Quake3 or Darkplaces) could be interesting.  I may even rewrite everything in a new programming language (probably not, but it is something to think about, as lack of good debugging facilities has often been an issue).  Guess I'll see what I feel like doing when the time comes :)

andrewj

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2017, 07:32:52 AM »
@Spaceman: the "Jumbled" theme setting means each map's theme is chosen purely randomly (like a dice throw), where "bit mixed" means groups of maps (2-4) have the same theme before choosing a new (random) one.  The "xxx-ish" settings means you get mostly "xxx" but with an occasionally different one thrown in.

Symmetry is where rooms are mirrored, e.g. has the same architecture on the left side as the right side. 

Frozsoul

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2017, 12:39:49 PM »
Hi Andrew,

I just wanted to thank you so much for the incredible work and devotion you have put into Oblige.  I absolutely love the quality of the random maps and it breathes such new life into DOOM, exponentially increasing the replay value.

One question I had is whether 3D floors will make a return for the next Oblige release?  This is a feature I really liked in v6, it would be great if it could return in the next version.

flyingdeath

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2017, 07:15:47 PM »
Have not tried them yet, but I really like the extra options that have been added, particularly the theme stuff, and various ramp options (will test soon). Also Enjoying the changes to various light types. Also also really like the fact that collecting copies of weapons never triggers traps. Also love the round hell windows*.

One minor issue. Traps around lowering key pedestals still trigger when the pedestal is raised. Not sure if there is a good way to resolve that.

Any chance of bringing back the double switch doors, and adding the old triple key door (in addition the current triple door). I find that maps are far more interesting when multi quest doors are used occasionally. While I'm on the subject, how about 3 switches that raise 3 steps to access an other area. Switches could be distributed around the map or (and much cooler) have them need keys and be in the same room as the steps.

Now I think about it, the current triple door would work better as a double door (as only two of the colours are seen on the outer door, and I think I assumed it would be a double key door when I saw it).


edit: I see now that urban theme has round windows too.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 05:10:51 PM by flyingdeath »

Herculine

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Re: 7.55 test package
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2017, 07:39:57 PM »
I like the new room geometry I'm seeing, the option to affect symmetry, the new variety of window shapes and the return of hallways but I'm not quite sure how I feel about this yet...

Even so, I'm impressed with the progress you continue to make. Thank you for the work you continue to put into improving this and for sharing it with us diehard Doomers.

(Not sure why my screenshots aren't showing up, but with them I was referring to the triple-layer doors.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pdd60p050u8plaw/Screenshot_Doom_20170603_212855.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3rniyu2zpz8w9gm/Screenshot_Doom_20170603_155355.png?dl=0