Author Topic: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread  (Read 20740 times)

Glaice

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Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« on: October 31, 2015, 09:35:02 AM »
I'd figure I'd create a thread so all general discussion and questions on the ongoing development of V7 can be in one location rather than multiple single threads with one question. :)

So here's a starter: What usage will PhysFS, which I see in the committ browser do for Oblige?

andrewj

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2015, 06:41:16 PM »
I will give you a hint: PhysFS has nothing to do with physics.

Dante

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2015, 09:03:41 AM »
Will this thread be about just discussing the coding side of V7, or can anyone chime in their two cents about it? If it's going to be the latter, can you compile a stable test build for the purpose this thread, as so we can get an idea of what could in store for V7?

Glaice

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2015, 09:05:48 AM »
Predominantly for V7 general discussion and questions, Dante.

I looked up PhysFS and it looks like a ZLib library of some sort.

JamesNaruto12

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2015, 01:23:27 PM »
Will this have the big tech doors that's in the 7.17 version?Like does more than the small tech doors in 6.20.

redrage

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2015, 01:31:27 PM »
Out of curiosity. Where are the fonts stored that you use for your title generation? I may or may not want to play around with those.  ;)

Also, I recently compiled oblige again from a snapshot and it seems to not place doors yet. Is this just where development stands atm or did I do something wrong?  ;D

Red

Glaice

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2015, 02:17:19 PM »
Also, here is another version of ult_anomaly to use, it's to satisfy those who did not find the original challenging enough :)

For V6, this can still be used by editing levels.lua (in games/doom dir) under the DOOM.PREBUILT_LEVELS section and the WAD file in data/doom1_boss:
 
Code: [Select]
  E1M8 =
  {
    { prob=50,  file="doom1_boss/anomaly1.wad", map="E1M8" }
    { prob=50,  file="doom1_boss/anomaly2.wad", map="E1M8" }
    { prob=100, file="doom1_boss/anomaly3.wad", map="E1M8" }
    { prob=100, file="doom1_boss/ult_anomaly.wad", map="E1M8" }
    { prob=200, file="doom1_boss/ult_anomaly2.wad", map="E1M8" } --Harder version put here
  }

I might just make harder versions of the other boss maps.

Also an idea: Sometimes use the original Icon of Sin face when generating a megawad for Doom2/TNT/Plutonia so it's not always the FreeDoom face?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 02:28:18 PM by Glaice »

andrewj

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2015, 05:06:37 PM »
What PhysFS is for is support for "add-ons" -- people will be able to pack their changes to Oblige into a PK3 file and share them, users just place them into the "addons" folder and enable it in a new addon manager window.

@Dante: a test build will be available when code is ready.  It is far from ready though.

@James: it will have big tech doors, I want to limit the small doors to entering or leaving hallways.

@redrage: the title font is line-based, defined in TITLE_LETTER_SHAPES table in scripts/pic_gen.lua.  And yes no doors are placed atm (in fact even levels are not built right now).

@chris: thanks for ult_anomaly2 map.

andrewj

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2015, 09:59:46 PM »
Here's a tiny map created with the new organic_room algorithm:

andrewj

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2015, 04:15:06 AM »
Here is a more substantial example, showing the hybrid of premade shapes and organic shapes.  MAP01 has a pretty fun start.  There is a MAP04 too.  The maps are lacking stairs, so best play in a port with jumping enabled, but still may need to IDCLIP in a few spots.

kop9000

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2015, 09:06:08 AM »
Very good cards are obtained.

I have two questions

1) you have written to me like that

Quote
Also the "seed" value is limited to a 31-bit integer, so values above 2147483647 will not be unique.

you can increase up to 64-bit or 128-bit integer to seed were very Length, such as it is in games minecraft?

2) You promised to return in 7 Oblige corridors of version 4.20, but I do not see these corridors in the test level that you have laid out

redrage

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2015, 02:04:38 PM »
Andrew,

Thank you for the clarification. I really did not expect to see the font for titles handled like that! Haha, here i thought I could just clean up the pixel font somewhat. I was sorely mistaken!  ;D

I played the test levels. Seems a lot has changed already from the last time I compiled a snapshot!

Even in this early stage I love what I am seeing! It is just as random as before but it seems, to me at least, that there are less "funny" corners. With funny I mean either too sharp or just a single cutout (like a little pie). This seems to have all the benefits of the previous technology without the downsides. I also spotted some symmetrical rooms which emphasize that humanly build feel.

I also have the feeling, perhaps because of less funny corners, that "hallways" are better sized. In the previous version "halways" at certain angles felt too small sometimes. I do not get this feeling now with these test levels. Even in this early stage really impressed with what you've shown. Thanks for sharing with us! :)

==

If there is any feedback to give it would be this. But feel free to ignore it at this early stage. I have the impression (and nothing more then that), that even with the doors imagined in place (you can see the doortracks if im not mistaken) some of the "connection" area's outside sometimes come together as a rather large, all connected area.

This might create issues with all the monsters from such area's "leaking" towards the player. This will result in an overload of monsters at the beginning of entering such area's. This often creates static player behavior where you wait and have all the monsters come to you. You are kinda forced to do this if -all- the monsters of the area come towards you, they block entrances.

Keep in mind this is just based on my impression of the "connection" areas. With no doors present at all this is hard to judge. However, since its early in development and your still fully working on the grower algorithm now might be a good time to think about solutions. Perhaps some doors or other temporary closures can be added to segment these area's a little bit.

@kop9000

I think its good to realize this is a very, very early version that Andrew just shared with the obsessively interested. ;) I feel its a little inappropriate the way you present Andrew made "promises" and failed to deliver since its not in this build. He does this in his spare time, for free, and from the git repo its clear he is spending a lot of time on it. All for what is probably a relatively small, niche crowd.

Andrew has been very open to suggestions, in fact he added several things I suggested myself (among others) like liquid escapes. I am very grateful for that. This does not mean however you can demand features or call him out on "promises". Even if Andrew "promised" things you should take them as intentions which may or may not get implemented depending on a lot of factors.

I think I remember Andrew mentioning the seed value was not of much value (and I agree). Regardless of that you have the ability to set a seed and you can use 2.147.483.647 unique numbers for it. That is two billion, one hundred forty-seven million, four hundred eighty-three thousand, six hundred forty-seven written out. Are you serious?

Please show some respect towards Andrew and this thread.

Red

PS
Thanks Glaice for making this thread.

PS2
Almost forgot. The addon stuff sounds ridiculously cool! \o/

kop9000

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2015, 02:34:30 PM »
I think I remember Andrew mentioning the seed value was not of much value (and I agree). Regardless of that you have the ability to set a seed and you can use 2.147.483.647 unique numbers for it. That is two billion, one hundred forty-seven million, four hundred eighty-three thousand, six hundred forty-seven written out. Are you serious?

The fact that 2 billion is certainly a lot. But if the program when clicking on the little plus seed program has generated a completely random seed, and not  the number of rising above it, would be good.

I just wanted to make it even a lot more like 20 billion. I just do not understand why he did not do more.

I use .bat mode as it randomly seed generator

And I respect the developer. What he does a great job. For that I thank him

flyingdeath

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2015, 06:24:10 PM »
I think you should submit Planet of Flames to a online map archive, its friggin' hilarious. But seriously I pretty much agree with redrage on the point about keeping the benefits of the previous version and losing some of the downsides. Maps feel very interesting (in a good way).
Loving the extra flavour the intro screen has, sets the mood perfectly for entering the unknown.

Remember, kop9000 is using a translator. I think the word "promise" is just an unfortunate choice made by the translator, and not what he intended to say. But it is premature to be looking for specific stuff in an example map, loads of stuff is missing.

andrewj

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Re: Oblige V7 Ongoing Development Discussion Megathread
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2015, 10:01:14 PM »
Thanks everyone for the feedback.

V7 supports 52-bit seed numbers, i.e. numbers from 0 to 9007199254740991.

V7 *might* be able to make hallways like in 4.28 -- in the future.  It is low priority though, because I think hallways are quite boring.

For title generator, it could support bitmap fonts -- the whole thing is just a bit of fun and I'm not sure it is worth it, but they would certainly look better.

Yeah I want to avoid rooms where you end up just shooting all the monsters funnelling toward the entrance door(way).  Not sure exactly how, but having decorative prefabs (even just some crates) will help.  Also some fences between outdoor rooms should be higher.