Author Topic: [NO BUG] Vanilla DOOM not supported  (Read 3439 times)

Zestypanda

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[NO BUG] Vanilla DOOM not supported
« on: August 09, 2014, 10:49:28 PM »
When using the most recent sourceforge build, 6.10, and using the settings doom2 as the game and legacy for the engine. When I create a map, reguardless of size or number of levels it errors using the legacy engine settings. What do I mean by erroring? Well, when I load the created .wad file into chocolate doom, doom 2 within dosbox or native doom 2 version 1.9 on native hardware (pentium mmx 188mhz and ms-dos 6.22) it either fails with the error P_spawnmapthing: Unknown type 4000 at (2354,453), the coordinates and item number really don't matter, what matters is that under oblige version 6.10 using legacy settings the map is unplayable. Yet if I revert back to 4.28 it seems to load the map fine. Furthermore if I use version 4.28 and up all the way to 6.05 it creates the map just fine and it is playable, if you keep the level diversity and amount of monsters within the limits of original doom1 and doom2.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 02:50:18 AM by andrewj »

wpeo

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Re: Regression of legacy on 6.10
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2014, 11:01:59 PM »
When using the most recent sourceforge build, 6.10, and using the settings doom2 as the game and legacy for the engine. When I create a map, reguardless of size or number of levels it errors using the legacy engine settings. What do I mean by erroring? Well, when I load the created .wad file into chocolate doom, doom 2 within dosbox or native doom 2 version 1.9 on native hardware (pentium mmx 188mhz and ms-dos 6.22) it either fails with the error P_spawnmapthing: Unknown type 4000 at (2354,453), the coordinates and item number really don't matter, what matters is that under oblige version 6.10 using legacy settings the map is unplayable. Yet if I revert back to 4.28 it seems to load the map fine. Furthermore if I use version 4.28 and up all the way to 6.05 it creates the map just fine and it is playable, if you keep the level diversity and amount of monsters within the limits of original doom1 and doom2.
Doom Legacy is an advanced source port. You shouldn't expect to play Legacy maps in Chocolate/vanilla Doom.

Zestypanda

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Re: Regression of legacy on 6.10
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2014, 11:32:34 PM »
So, then, what settings would I select that will enable me to play a randomly generated map withing chocolate doom, dosbox doom1 and doom2 and native doom1 and doom2 on hardware of the time?

wpeo

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Re: Regression of legacy on 6.10
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 11:54:57 PM »
Try "Limit removing". You can also try to use Doom plus: http://prboom-plus.sourceforge.net/ to hopefully avoid crashes due to exceeded limits. I don't know if it does.

Zestypanda

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Re: Regression of legacy on 6.10
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2014, 02:01:01 AM »
I don't want to play with limit removing. The purpose is to generate a map that is playable on native doom 1 or 2 (dependant on settings) that will play under MS-DOS on actual hardware with no source ports or emulation or limit removing. Is it possible to generate a map that stays within the limits?

andrewj

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Re: [NO BUG] Vanilla DOOM not supported
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2014, 02:55:41 AM »
The original game (vanilla DOOM) is not supported by OBLIGE, and never has been.

This is mentioned in the documentation, e.g. on the Usage page it says:
Quote
You should use a Source Port to play the levels, because the original DOS versions, such as DOOM.EXE and DOOM2.EXE, cannot cope with the architecture which OBLIGE creates. For example, you will probably get the "Visplane Overflow" error which quits the game, or a crash when saving to a savegame. (Note that Chocolate-Doom has the same limitations as the original DOS versions, and should not be used either).

Under DOS you can play with the BOOM source port.

Alternatively, there is a random map generator called SLIGE which you could try.

Quote
Is it possible to generate a map that stays within the limits?
Short answer is: no

Longer answer: I don't believe it is possible to generate interesting maps AND guarantee that the limits are never breached.  If you want to play a series of simple closed rooms connected together, SLIGE serves this purpose.

wpeo

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Re: [NO BUG] Vanilla DOOM not supported
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2014, 04:01:37 AM »
Hence I mentioned Doom plus which is vanilla Doom executable hacked to increase limits.

De-M-oN

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Re: [NO BUG] Vanilla DOOM not supported
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2014, 10:08:14 AM »
prboom is vanilla doom with removed limits.
What is wrong about that?

Why you disallow even that? I dont get it ^^

Glaice

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Re: [NO BUG] Vanilla DOOM not supported
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2014, 02:59:22 PM »
I am guessing because it's not 'pure' vanilla Doom.

Zestypanda

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Re: [NO BUG] Vanilla DOOM not supported
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2014, 07:07:30 PM »
Ok, sorry. I'll just go and use doomsday to play oblige maps from now on. XD Funny how my question turned into a sticky basically telling others that it does not support vanilla doom. :P

De-M-oN

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Re: [NO BUG] Vanilla DOOM not supported
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2014, 07:11:05 PM »
just use prboom as simple as that.
Its so easy...

It removes the engine problematic limits. It doesnt alter gameplay at all. prboom is perfectly vanilla sourceport, just without stupid limits like visplane errors. The one and only difference with prboom would be that only the annoying limits are away - not gameplay related ones.

Thats why I dont understand how even a prboom isnt a solution for you. Its plain vanilla doom, just without errors coming up xD

andrewj

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Re: [NO BUG] Vanilla DOOM not supported
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2014, 10:53:34 PM »
I see now why you originally called this thread a regression -- because I did add thing types 4000 to 4003 into maps to support 8 player co-op, and these things cause an error in Vanilla DOOM.

Nevertheless, vanilla DOOM (and chocolate DOOM) are not supported for the reasons given above.  I plan to make this clearer in the documentation.

Zestypanda

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Re: [NO BUG] Vanilla DOOM not supported
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2014, 11:31:56 PM »
Ok dude, one quick side note. Why did you stop developing your doom port? :D

Zestypanda

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Re: Regression of legacy on 6.10
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2014, 11:33:55 PM »
I don't want to play with limit removing. The purpose is to generate a map that is playable on native doom 1 or 2 (dependant on settings) that will play under MS-DOS on actual hardware with no source ports or emulation or limit removing. Is it possible to generate a map that stays within the limits?
Side note: Man, I must of been way tired when I wrote that, makes me look like an idiot lol. I apparently forgot that there were limit removing source ports for DOS. Oops, second brain fart.

andrewj

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Re: [NO BUG] Vanilla DOOM not supported
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2014, 07:21:14 AM »
Ok dude, one quick side note. Why did you stop developing your doom port? :D
Main reason is I just got tired of working on it.

(and I wouldn't call it "mine", other people worked on EDGE too, such as Andrew Baker).  We had a decent run, and a bit of fun too ;)