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General Discussion / Re: Best way for less expansive rooms?
« Last post by andrewj on December 09, 2017, 04:24:00 PM »
@Glaice you'll need to post a brighter shot, or a shot from a map editor, as I can't see a damn thing in that one (and my current monitor is much brighter than my last one, so I bet most people couldn't see a damn thing in that shot).
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General Discussion / Re: Best way for less expansive rooms?
« Last post by Glaice on December 07, 2017, 01:11:58 PM »
Speaking of less expansive rooms again, I'm trying to figure out which shape(?) room type with the double stairs to show up less often.
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General Discussion / Re: Changing Oblige's Shapes = Architecture.
« Last post by Abashi76 on December 07, 2017, 12:24:45 PM »
1) Why are you not going to create more Oblige? Can somebody else do it?

2) No, just the program.

3) I would like to create my own room shapes but my biggest problem is i can't tell what each room is supposed to be.

4) For some reason i can only get it to build one good idea only once.

5) No, it still wouldn't! It always says "prefab does not fit on y axis". It doesn't have that problem for the other key room so why this?

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@Abashi76: Is this the daily SLIGE megawad thing you speak of: https://soulsphere.org/hacks/slige/ ? Slige still works for me because it's a 32 bit program so it should work for you.

No, just the program.

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underworld_of_the_zombies
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General Discussion / Re: Changing Oblige's Shapes = Architecture.
« Last post by Glaice on December 03, 2017, 09:31:45 AM »
@Abashi76: Is this the daily SLIGE megawad thing you speak of: https://soulsphere.org/hacks/slige/ ? Slige still works for me because it's a 32 bit program so it should work for you.
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General Discussion / Re: Changing Oblige's Shapes = Architecture.
« Last post by andrewj on December 03, 2017, 12:01:24 AM »
1) Thanks for keeping it because i can use them for my own pwads. You should add them to the next version, and certain text files suggest you will. You should add both switches and the one key room that does not have a .lua file for it. Why is it too big?
The grid size (size of squares) in OBLIGE V7 is 128x128, but this prefab is 192x192.  So it is too big to fit in a single square, but too small to fit in 2x2 squares.  Most prefabs need to fit in a whole number of squares.

It could be fixed for V7, but I don't work on OBLIGE anymore so I won't do it.  The lua definition is also missing some fields to make it work.


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Also, does the largest of the hell decorations still work?
They are rare because most rooms which V7 creates do not create areas large enough.  There is also a height restriction, and outdoor rooms are often too high for them.

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2) Slige does not work on my computer because it's too old. I couldn't find any newer versions.
There used to be a place where you could download a megawad from Slige, it was called something like "Daily Slige Megawad".  I think it was hosted on Doomworld.

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3) I don't think i could figure out room architecture by looking at the very simple text. I can't tell what room that is at all. If i made a guess i would guess every room is small and simple, but most are not. Also, you forget to tell me what "R", "A" "!" "%" are.
I gave a brief introduction to the shape system, but I am not going to write a complete guide about it, and it doesn't sound like you are interested in experimenting with your own room shapes.

For the record, 'R' creates an area which will be a new room, and 'A' creates a new area instead of extending onto an existing area.

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5) Let me upload the new teleporter wad i made : it has a doorstop at the border which makes it look a lot better than the ugly one in the original :
http://www.mediafire.com/file/tkzgn8jfz2rbf77/closet2.wad
Thanks for that.

As I said before, I no longer work on OBLIGE, but that teleporter may be useful for somebody.

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Oblige tried to place the un-used prefabs but it said the y-axis does not fit. I lowered it and now both of them are either only as high or even lower than the currently working one which is "niche 2".
Because the size is wrong.

It would need to be made a big bigger, 256x256 which is two squares wide and high, and the Lua definitions would need to mention that it is 2x2 squares by adding these lines:
Code: [Select]
seed_w = 2
seed_h = 2
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General Discussion / Re: Changing Oblige's Shapes = Architecture.
« Last post by Abashi76 on December 01, 2017, 07:51:46 AM »
I would like to make rooms look more classical. By that i mean, more simple shapes such as squares and circles. I think it could easily be done by splitting larger rooms into two or three rooms.

I don't know if "classical" style rooms is possible with OBLIGE 7.70.  I think it would need a completely different method to generate maps like that.

I was planning to make the rooms simpler, but that never happened.  But when rooms are too simple, they are very boring -- maybe you should try the maps from SLIGE, where most rooms are just rectangles, and you will see what I mean.

The animated GIF in the following post shows how OBLIGE V7 grows a map, where each step is the application of a shape grammar rule in shapes.lua
http://oblige.sourceforge.net/forum/index.php?topic=483.msg4215#msg4215

If you watch the animation, you can see it often extends an existing area with a small 2x1 rectangle.  That corresponds to the "GROW_2" rule in the shapes.lua file.  Part of that rule contains this:

Code: [Select]
  structure =
  {
    "....", ".11."
    "x11x", "x11x"
  }

The structure section has a left side and a right side.  The left side is something to match.  The '.' means nothing must be there in that square.  The '1' means it matches an existing area of a room.  The 'x' means we don't care (match anything in that square).

The right side shows what is added or changed.  You should be able to see that the only difference is some extra '1' symbols on the top row.  The '1' is the matched area of a room, so this structure definition means we are adding two squares to an existing area of the room.

Those rules are how most of the rooms are generated by OBLIGE.  (There is a different system for "caves" and a different system again for "parks").

About the "Niche1" prefab -- it is a left-over from older versions of OBLIGE and won't actually work in OBLIGE V7 since it is too big.  It should have been removed, but I didn't notice it.

1) Thanks for keeping it because i can use them for my own pwads. You should add them to the next version, and certain text files suggest you will. You should add both switches and the one key room that does not have a .lua file for it. Why is it too big? There are a lot of big rooms big enough for me to add them myself. Would it build it anyway if i made the "prob" really high like let's say "4000"? All three missing prefabs are really kool, better than most pwads : why didn't you add them? Also, does the largest of the hell decorations still work? ps : I actually got the map generator to place "alcove_bars" but it doesn't know how to add a switch so i'm going to change the wad file so the bars are a door. I still havn't seen the switches and they were programmed to work.

2) Slige does not work on my computer because it's too old. I couldn't find any newer versions.

3) I don't think i could figure out room architecture by looking at the very simple text. I can't tell what room that is at all. If i made a guess i would guess every room is small and simple, but most are not. Also, you forget to tell me what "R", "A" "!" "%" are.

4) Sometimes on rare occasions 7.70 either makes a small classical room or a really good outdoor area. My modification has caused it to sometimes build good caves because i increased the size. I don't remember how many .lua files i had to modify to make it work, and which ones. I would share what i did with the caves if it had its own .lua file because its pretty good.

5) Let me upload the new teleporter wad i made : it has a doorstop at the border which makes it look a lot better than the ugly one in the original :
http://www.mediafire.com/file/tkzgn8jfz2rbf77/closet2.wad

EDIT : Oblige tried to place the un-used prefabs but it said the y-axis does not fit. I lowered it and now both of them are either only as high or even lower than the currently working one which is "niche 2". And no matter what i do it keeps giving the same error message. I looked at other .lua files and added what i thought should make it work. You could have added all three, i actually got the barred key room to work.
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General Discussion / Re: Changing Oblige's Shapes = Architecture.
« Last post by andrewj on November 30, 2017, 08:13:59 PM »
I would like to make rooms look more classical. By that i mean, more simple shapes such as squares and circles. I think it could easily be done by splitting larger rooms into two or three rooms.

I don't know if "classical" style rooms is possible with OBLIGE 7.70.  I think it would need a completely different method to generate maps like that.

I was planning to make the rooms simpler, but that never happened.  But when rooms are too simple, they are very boring -- maybe you should try the maps from SLIGE, where most rooms are just rectangles, and you will see what I mean.

The animated GIF in the following post shows how OBLIGE V7 grows a map, where each step is the application of a shape grammar rule in shapes.lua
http://oblige.sourceforge.net/forum/index.php?topic=483.msg4215#msg4215

If you watch the animation, you can see it often extends an existing area with a small 2x1 rectangle.  That corresponds to the "GROW_2" rule in the shapes.lua file.  Part of that rule contains this:

Code: [Select]
  structure =
  {
    "....", ".11."
    "x11x", "x11x"
  }

The structure section has a left side and a right side.  The left side is something to match.  The '.' means nothing must be there in that square.  The '1' means it matches an existing area of a room.  The 'x' means we don't care (match anything in that square).

The right side shows what is added or changed.  You should be able to see that the only difference is some extra '1' symbols on the top row.  The '1' is the matched area of a room, so this structure definition means we are adding two squares to an existing area of the room.

Those rules are how most of the rooms are generated by OBLIGE.  (There is a different system for "caves" and a different system again for "parks").

About the "Niche1" prefab -- it is a left-over from older versions of OBLIGE and won't actually work in OBLIGE V7 since it is too big.  It should have been removed, but I didn't notice it.
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General Discussion / Changing Oblige's Shapes = Architecture.
« Last post by Abashi76 on November 29, 2017, 08:44:36 AM »
Glaice said i should bring this up in another topic.

Somebody told me that shapes.lua does change architecture style. Problem is i don't know programming so i don't know what each category does. He said that one example is to make a small rectangle, but i don't know what that means. There are many labels, which does what? He told me for example, Root_1 makes a small rectangle.

I would like to make rooms look more classical. By that i mean, more simple shapes such as squares and circles. I think it could easily be done by splitting larger rooms into two or three rooms. Also, for symmetrical rooms it would be nice to see a patter go on in a straight line and separate the surrounding oddly shaped rooms that always have some sort of stairway. I can't really post pics of what i mean because i find them a lot on Youtube and in game as well.

Another think i would like to do is to make the better looking rooms appear more commonly. I'll give two examples :

1) A fence at a junction, i posted a screenshot of this on the share your oblige wads thread
2) Liquid texture surrounding by buildings as scenery, more of that but keep the parks on cliffs
3) Decorations from 7.50 for hell maps, the metal pillars with corpse hanging from them
4) Flat symmetrical rooms, more of them
5) More of the detailed teleporter rooms and more teleport pads on floors rather than those red rooms

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Yes, the shapes.lua file contain rules for growing rooms.

Rooms begin as a basic shape, such as a 3x3 rectangle in the "ROOT_1" rule.  Then rooms are grown by applying other rules, such as "GROW_2" which adds a small 2x1 rectangle onto an existing area.

Rules with stairs in them contain the word "STAIR" in their name, and rules with liquids areas contain the word "LIQUID", and rules for hallways begin with "HALL".

PS : The hell_gore.lua file and wad files for the old hell decorations from 7.50 are there but no matter how much i increase "prob" the program never places them.

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PREFABS.Decor_hellgore4 =
{
  file   = "decor/hell_gore.wad"
  map    = "MAP04"

  prob   = 400
  theme  = "hell"
  env    = "outdoor"

  where  = "point"
  size   = 200
  height = { 152, 256 }

  bound_z1 = 0
  bound_z2 = 152

  z_fit  = "bottom"

  thing_34 =
  {
    hang_twitching = 30
    hang_arm_pair  = 20
    hang_leg_gone  = 10
  }
}


PREFABS.Decor_hellgore5 =
{
  file   = "decor/hell_gore.wad"
  map    = "MAP05"

  prob   = 600
  theme  = "hell"
  env    = "outdoor"

  where  = "point"
  size   = 200
  height = { 128, 256 }

  bound_z1 = 0
  bound_z2 = 128

  z_fit  = "top"

  thing_34 =
  {
    gutted_victim2 = 40
    gutted_victim1 = 20
    gutted_torso3  = 10
  }
}


I also never seen it place "niche1" as a switch, its always "niche2" no matter what episode even though by default "niche1" has a higher prob... I doubled prob... for "niche1" but i don't think that is going to work either. Same goes for "nichebars" which by default already has a high prob .... Can anybody make a mod for me that gets all these to work because they are supposed to exist now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usGasXzIBrE ---- 2:45

EDIT : I got two out of three of them to work. I havn't seen the large one with three hanging corpses yet.

Niche1 still won't work, and Niche_bars doesn't work either ....
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General Discussion / Re: Getting more themes
« Last post by Abashi76 on November 29, 2017, 07:57:10 AM »
It's doable with editing themes.lua and materials.lua.

I changed probability of Oblige using certain textures for Doom 1. I'm going to try it out.

For some reason cave sizes didn't increase when i changed the numbers to be higher.
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General Discussion / Re: Getting more themes
« Last post by Glaice on November 28, 2017, 10:03:00 PM »
It's doable with editing themes.lua and materials.lua.
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